Posts by Disillusioned JW

30

Jw's sending me invites and letters, I don't get it.

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

first off, i have made it real clear with jw's my thoughts on being a jw.

i'm out, there is no coming back.. second, i'm on their " do not call list" .. so why now all of a sudden my mailbox is getting bombed 💣 by their memorial invites and letters?.

don't they follow their do not call list?

Disillusioned JW

Its weird that they are trying so much to bring you back to the org. They are acting like corporations repeatedly sending advertisements to people.

35

Refuting the Alleged Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection

by truth_b_known in

in the past few months there have been a few debates on this site over alleged evidence of the resurrection of jesus.

this can be a hot topic as most would agree that without the resurrection of jesus there would be no christianity.

i am not so sure of that, but i am more sure that dr. gary habermas' minimal facts approach to the resurrection has no evidentiary basis.. here is a 22 minute video on the topic.

When I met Carrier in person I told him that Christianity existed before the first century CE - before the time that Jesus supposedly lived on Earth. That is because of what I had read and because of what Carrier said in his lecture about the emergence of ideas that later became identified with Christianity. Carrier was surprised by that idea of mine. He then said that Christianity (at least as people commonly think of it today) came to be when Paul combined the various ideas and preached the "Christ crucified" doctrine.

13

Watchtower talking bad about other religions

by asp59 in

do you remember the time when every watchtower article seemed like a boasting session?

how great watchtower was.

they we're the only one with holy spirit.

Disillusioned JW

What makes the WT talking (and writing) bad about other religions especially bad is that now the WT is doing some of the things which the WT sharply criticized the other religions for doing!

The WT criticized the Catholic church for having "... an exalted hierarchy with the pope at its head" (See page275 of the WT book from 1951 called What Has Religion Done for Mankind?) Yet the WT has a hierarchy of assistants to ministerial servants, ministerial servants, elders, traveling overseers, and the governing body. The governing body now even claims to be the sole constituent of the "faithful and discreet slave"!

The WT used to criticize the Catholic church for having a religious order, but now the WT literally has a religious order!

The WT criticized the Catholic Church for practicing excommunication but the WT now directs JW elders to disfellowship many JWs (though the WT and the JW elders don't prevent ex-JWs and other non-JWs from partaking of the memorial emblems).

The WT criticizes Christendom for "flat rejection of the real kingdom of the Seed of God's woman" (see page 299 of the What Has Religion Done for Mankind? book) but it tells JWs that no more than 144,000 of all JWs who ever lived (not counting Christ) became part of the new covenant with Jesus Christ! The WT discourages JWs from believing they are part of the new covenant and born again (and born from above), despite what the Christian Greek Scriptures teach!

Gman2001, you are right in saying the following. "The claim that Jehovah chose them as his representatives...is a myth. Big claims require big proof and they have none." For example, so many of the WT's books make mythical claims regarding the significance of what happened to the WT in 1918 and 1919, not just to what they claim happened in heaven in 1914.

35

Refuting the Alleged Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection

by truth_b_known in

in the past few months there have been a few debates on this site over alleged evidence of the resurrection of jesus.

this can be a hot topic as most would agree that without the resurrection of jesus there would be no christianity.

i am not so sure of that, but i am more sure that dr. gary habermas' minimal facts approach to the resurrection has no evidentiary basis.. here is a 22 minute video on the topic.

Disillusioned JW

Sea Breeze, now I know why you made comment about Carrier and posted the link about him. I now know because a moment ago the starting image of a video by Carrier included in the post by thruth_b_known loaded onto my computer which has a slow internet connection.

30

Jw's sending me invites and letters, I don't get it.

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

first off, i have made it real clear with jw's my thoughts on being a jw.

i'm out, there is no coming back.. second, i'm on their " do not call list" .. so why now all of a sudden my mailbox is getting bombed 💣 by their memorial invites and letters?.

don't they follow their do not call list?

Disillusioned JW

Foolednomore, I had thought I had read that you said that you didn't open the letters you received from the JWs, and that is why I wrote that you might find a personal email address in the letters if you read them. But now I see I was wrong to think that you said you didn't open the envelopes. Apparently when I read a post by truth_b_known quoting a portion of a post by stan livedeath, I later incorrectly thought the quoted phrase was by you instead.

35

Refuting the Alleged Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection

by truth_b_known in

in the past few months there have been a few debates on this site over alleged evidence of the resurrection of jesus.

this can be a hot topic as most would agree that without the resurrection of jesus there would be no christianity.

i am not so sure of that, but i am more sure that dr. gary habermas' minimal facts approach to the resurrection has no evidentiary basis.. here is a 22 minute video on the topic.

Disillusioned JW

Sea Breeze, I don't see how your link about allegations about Carrier relates to the rest of the content of your post, thus why did you post that link?

It saddens me that Dr. Richard Carrier, PhD. has apparently engaged in certain kinds of sexual behavior, and that he is alleged to be hypocritical about some of those matters. I was shocked when I learned of such things since I have been deeply impressed by what I have read in his books that prove there is no personal god. I also had a favorable impression of him when I met him in person.

I read much of his book called Sense and Goodness Without God: A Defense of Metaphysical Naturalism and the book greatly impresses me. It makes an extremely strong case against the existence of personal god, especially that of a 3 O type of god. It also makes a good case for a basis for ethics that is consistent with metaphysical naturalism and with living by knowledge of science.

I met Carrier in person at a lecture by him presented at a meeting held by a Humanist organization in the city in \which I was born. His lecture was impressive and I talked to him face to face in person after his lecture. My impression of him back then was that he is a good man and a very smart man. I was very impressed by what he said about syncretism in its relation to how Christian came to be. The lecture was about Carrier's book called On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt (2014). I also read much of what he wrote in some books edited by John W. Loftus and I am also very impressed with that content.

30

Jw's sending me invites and letters, I don't get it.

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

first off, i have made it real clear with jw's my thoughts on being a jw.

i'm out, there is no coming back.. second, i'm on their " do not call list" .. so why now all of a sudden my mailbox is getting bombed 💣 by their memorial invites and letters?.

don't they follow their do not call list?

Disillusioned JW

The two JW letters I received both had the return address of the KH I last attended, but one of the enclosed letters also had a personal email address of a JW (which was also for her household). Thus perhaps some of the letters you received also included a personal email address or personal phone number, but the only way to know for sure is to open the envelopes and to read at least part of of each of the enclosed letters.

21

The senseless ''non partakers'' Jesus Memorial

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

matthew 26: 18-20 .

18 he said: “go into the city to so-and-so and say to him, ‘the teacher says: “my appointed time is near; i will celebrate the passover with my disciples at your home.19 so the disciples did as jesus instructed them and prepared for the passover.20 when evening came, he was reclining at the table with the 12 disciples.. only jesus and his 12 disciples were present at the passover .if jesus wanted observers, he would of had some sit down at his last meal and requested that they be present that day and future passovers.

why does the wts feel that observers ( non partakers ) need to attend the yearly memorial?

Disillusioned JW

John 3:3, 5, and 7 are very important verses, if hypothetically speaking the Bible is true. JWs who want to be in the kingdom of God, even if as earthly subjects of the kingdom, should very carefully think about those verses. Those verses are saying that in order to enter into the kingdom of God people must become "born again" and/or "born from above" (the latter being an alternate translation) and be born from spirit.

By the way when the gospel of Matthew says the "kingdom of heaven" instead of the "kingdom of god" it isn't saying the kingdom is only in heaven. It is using a substitute word for "God" because that gospel book is written for a Jewish audience - including Jews were were cautious about often using even the title/name "God". The Gospel writer might also be saying "kingdom of heaven" to convey the idea that the kingdom receives its authority from heaven (that is, from God in heaven).

If JWs were to realize that the Christian Greek Scriptures is speaking to all Christians and all prospective Christians when it talks about being "born again"/"born from above", "born from spirit", being part of the new covenant, and being sons/daughters of God, then it would likely make reading the Christian Greek Scripture impart a much greater emotional impact to them. At least that perspective has such an effect upon me when I (despite being an atheist ex-JW) read it from that perspective while imagining that the Christian Greek Scriptures is true!

From the point of view of the NT being true, the WT is doing a tremendous disservice to JWs (and prospective JWs) when it teaches that only a literal 144,000 humans become part of the new covenant!

30

Jw's sending me invites and letters, I don't get it.

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

first off, i have made it real clear with jw's my thoughts on being a jw.

i'm out, there is no coming back.. second, i'm on their " do not call list" .. so why now all of a sudden my mailbox is getting bombed 💣 by their memorial invites and letters?.

don't they follow their do not call list?

Disillusioned JW

Foolednomore, I'm very surprised that you are receiving so many letters from JWs.

The idea of sending it "Return to Sender" good but it would be wrong to write "Wrong Address" on it if it was actually addressed to the right address and to the actual person who lives at that address.It might violate US postal use laws to write "Wrong Address" if the address and addressee are not wrong.

I think one can write "Refused" on it, and thus "Refused - Return to Sender" on it. Keep in mind that the post office will only return letters to the sender if the mail was sent First Class (or Priority Mail?), instead of by a discounted shipping rate. But, letters sent by the JWs (in the USA) for witnessing purposes are probably all first class mail.

The idea of writing things on the back of the envelop as suggested by truth_be_known also sounds good to me, except I think one should be careful of what ones writes. Otherwise, the JW elders might get the idea that the addressee of the letter is now an apostate, instead of merely an inactive disinterested person.

Foolednomore, here are some reasons why I think you might be getting the letters (though the ideas don't explain why you are getting so many) despite requesting to be on the don't call list, and what might be a better approach to stop receiving the letters.

- Perhaps the letters are being sent by people in a congregation which you never attended, though likely from the same Kingdom Hall. If so, those people probably wouldn't know you are on the "Do Not Call" list (unless your home is in the territory of the congregation of those who sent you the letters).

- I think the "Do Not Call" list is usually kept with the territory card that is used for door to door witnessing. If that is the case the people writing the letters, even if from the congregation you attended, likely wouldn't know you are on the "Do Not Call" list.

- It might be advantageous to browse through the contents of the letters to see if an email address is provided by some of the senders. If so, then if you email the person to stop contacting you, and to notify the keeper of the "do not call" list of such, while stating you will never return to being an active JW, maybe that will stop the letters. However if you email the people, then that might result in receiving emails from them.

- In the past few years I have only received two letters from JWs (other than from my mom and sister). The second letter had a personal email address and I sent an email to that person. The person then sent me an email saying she would inform someone at the Kingdom Hall to make sure I stop getting such letters. I did not receive a further email from the JW (nor from any others) and thus far I have not received further postal mail letters from JWs (other than from my mom and sister, of course).

32

Who are the 144,000? Considering the immediate context of Revelation chapter 7

by raymond frantz in

who are the 144,000?

a critical examination of the teaching of the 144,000 from the perspective of an ex jx considering context and other references .this is from a series of videos called new light where i scrutinise all the major teachings of the watchtower.. https://youtu.be/aaseuzr-sxs.

Disillusioned JW

I think that idea of Abraham being described as in heaven was because at the time there was the idea of a section of Sheol (namely the idea of righteous Jews in Sheol being in a separate place of Sheol, away from the unrighteous) being lifted up to heaven. That special place in Sheol was thought of as Paradise by some Jews in the 1st century CE.